Hi Guys, I know sound is a science all of its own and I don't really want
to go really deep into it because one I have not got the dosh to go out and
purchase elaborate microphones and the problem I have only happens now and
again. I have been asked to film a friends wedding and it is bothering me
that I will be on a pod possibly 8/9 metres from the speeches which is obviously
going to effect the sound quality. In the past I have used my spare dv camcorder
which I have just left on the top table recording and just use the sound
and not the video at the editing stage....It works ok but I was curious if
someone knows a better way, I keep hearing about people using mini disc players
but unless you use a top expensive mic plugged into the player I can't really
see the sound quality from the mini disc's own mic being better than my dv
camcorder stereo mics. Also mini disc players don't have a USB lead so how
do you get it onto a premiere timeline for editing ??
I would appreciate any suggestions and would love to know how other film
makers would get around it
Regards
Dave cross ( 14559 )
recording sound
-
baz
Re: recording sound
"dave cross" <forums@theiac.org.uk> wrote:
it into your minidisc or camcorder, and point it at the right place - so
get
a mic stand as well!
A possible problem might be automatic level control (ALC) on recording.
Many consumer
recording devices have ALC, which does its best to make sure it picks up
quiet
things by cranking up the gain when nothing is going on, and then cranking
it
down again when something loud happens. If you are recording in a basically
quiet
room with some speeches with gaps in, this will result in hiss and noise
during the
gaps, and the voices will appear to 'pump' as the ALC does its thing. Try
and find
a recording device without ALC, then try and do a soundcheck beforehand.
Set up
your mic, stand where the speaker will be, and then do your best impression
of
the Best Man. Get someone to adjust the recording level until its right,
then turn
it down a bit, since a little background noise will probably be less noticable
than distortion, and things will probably be louder when everyone is in too.
connect
it to a soundcard with a digital input and just do play and record. There's
a couple
of different digital audio standards on optical or copper connections so
watch out
there. There's a few other possible pitfalls, like making sure sample rates
match up
and setting the recording gain but you'll work them out.
Find a dedicated audio application for recording - I use Wavelab but there's
plenty of free and cheap audio applications around.
If you haven't got digital audio I/O then you'll have to do it the analogue
way,
but then you have to be even more careful with gain on play and record to
prevent
low-level noise (if the gain is too low) or distortion or clipping (if the
gain is
too high).
Good luck on the Big Day!
Baz
You don't have to buy stuff - you could hire a directional microphone, plugHi Guys, I know sound is a science all of its own and I don't really want
to go really deep into it because one I have not got the dosh to go out
and
purchase elaborate microphones and the problem I have only happens now and
again. I have been asked to film a friends wedding
it into your minidisc or camcorder, and point it at the right place - so
get
a mic stand as well!
A possible problem might be automatic level control (ALC) on recording.
Many consumer
recording devices have ALC, which does its best to make sure it picks up
quiet
things by cranking up the gain when nothing is going on, and then cranking
it
down again when something loud happens. If you are recording in a basically
quiet
room with some speeches with gaps in, this will result in hiss and noise
during the
gaps, and the voices will appear to 'pump' as the ALC does its thing. Try
and find
a recording device without ALC, then try and do a soundcheck beforehand.
Set up
your mic, stand where the speaker will be, and then do your best impression
of
the Best Man. Get someone to adjust the recording level until its right,
then turn
it down a bit, since a little background noise will probably be less noticable
than distortion, and things will probably be louder when everyone is in too.
If you've got a minidisc player with a digital audio output then you canAlso mini disc players don't have a USB lead so how
do you get it onto a premiere timeline for editing ??
connect
it to a soundcard with a digital input and just do play and record. There's
a couple
of different digital audio standards on optical or copper connections so
watch out
there. There's a few other possible pitfalls, like making sure sample rates
match up
and setting the recording gain but you'll work them out.
Find a dedicated audio application for recording - I use Wavelab but there's
plenty of free and cheap audio applications around.
If you haven't got digital audio I/O then you'll have to do it the analogue
way,
but then you have to be even more careful with gain on play and record to
prevent
low-level noise (if the gain is too low) or distortion or clipping (if the
gain is
too high).
Good luck on the Big Day!
Baz
-
Michael Slowe
Re: recording sound
Have you considered trying to get a lead into the amp. into which presumably
the speeches are going.
You may have to be careful that no damage will be done to your camera, mine
has a special input for just
such a feed. If they are not using mics then of course this suggestion is
no good.
the speeches are going.
You may have to be careful that no damage will be done to your camera, mine
has a special input for just
such a feed. If they are not using mics then of course this suggestion is
no good.
-
Guest
Re: recording sound
Thanks for the help chaps.....I think I will stay with my trusty spare dv
camera and just leave it recording on the table it has never let me down
before, ok the sound isn't 100% but it's not far off. I was just hoping someone
somewhere had the same problem and was over coming it better without shelling
out lots of dosh. Thanks anyway I appreciate your help.
Regards
Dave cross 14559
camera and just leave it recording on the table it has never let me down
before, ok the sound isn't 100% but it's not far off. I was just hoping someone
somewhere had the same problem and was over coming it better without shelling
out lots of dosh. Thanks anyway I appreciate your help.
Regards
Dave cross 14559
-
Nigel Cooper
Re: recording sound
First up I wouldn’t use Mini Disc as the quality is compressed and doesn’t
come up to scratch, it is not in the same league as CD (not that CD is perfect),
though for a wedding it will be fine
The best way to get decent sound from the speeches is to put a mic on the
table like they do when they have a press speech from the PM for example.
Run a lead from this mic to your mixer, then into your camcorder.
Go for an AKG, Beyer or Sennheiser condenser mic.
come up to scratch, it is not in the same league as CD (not that CD is perfect),
though for a wedding it will be fine
The best way to get decent sound from the speeches is to put a mic on the
table like they do when they have a press speech from the PM for example.
Run a lead from this mic to your mixer, then into your camcorder.
Go for an AKG, Beyer or Sennheiser condenser mic.
-
Brian Hazelden
Re: recording sound
Not that I know too much about it, but I've found that while it is important
to record the sounds that you want, it is at least as important to NOT record
the sounds you DON'T want.
This usually means placing the microphone as close as possible to the sound
source. I have had good results recording wedding vows and speeches with
a £20 Maplins tie-clip mic recorded onto mini-disc. I've also used this set-up
for recording voices-over for documentaries. It's true that mini-disc is
compressed more than DV audio but it would take better ears than mine to
tell the difference on recorded speech with its limited dynamic range. If
you are on a very tight budget you could plug the mic into your camcorder,
they come with long leads.
Professional condensor mics give excellent results but are expensive, and
unless you are using a professional camera you will need to convert the XLR
balanced line input and provide phantom power. This could be by a mixer like
the Soundcraft Notepad (4 XLR inputs plus stereo phono in/out for about £80),
or a BeachTek adaptor (2 XLR inputs and bolts on to your camera - cost about
£150).
If you are doing things single handed and can't move the mic I'd have a listen
to a PZM boundary effect mic. The most famous of these were sold by Tandy/Realistic
for about £30 and are, unfortunately, no longer available from new. You can
still buy them on ebay, but expect to pay up to £50, they are that good.
The thing about PZM mics is that the distance between mic and sound source
seems to have little effect - you've got to hear it to appreciate what I
mean. AND it's an unbalanced line dynamic mic, which means it will plug straight
into your camcorder, but you'll probably need to buy a £2 1/4" to 3mm adaptor.
If I had a spare camera while filming wedding speeches I'd at least have
it taking a wide shot for cuts away. It could still record the audio. If
I only had one camera, and couldn't run a lead across the floor, I'd record
the audio onto a Hi-Fi VHS VCR hidden under the table.
Brian
to record the sounds that you want, it is at least as important to NOT record
the sounds you DON'T want.
This usually means placing the microphone as close as possible to the sound
source. I have had good results recording wedding vows and speeches with
a £20 Maplins tie-clip mic recorded onto mini-disc. I've also used this set-up
for recording voices-over for documentaries. It's true that mini-disc is
compressed more than DV audio but it would take better ears than mine to
tell the difference on recorded speech with its limited dynamic range. If
you are on a very tight budget you could plug the mic into your camcorder,
they come with long leads.
Professional condensor mics give excellent results but are expensive, and
unless you are using a professional camera you will need to convert the XLR
balanced line input and provide phantom power. This could be by a mixer like
the Soundcraft Notepad (4 XLR inputs plus stereo phono in/out for about £80),
or a BeachTek adaptor (2 XLR inputs and bolts on to your camera - cost about
£150).
If you are doing things single handed and can't move the mic I'd have a listen
to a PZM boundary effect mic. The most famous of these were sold by Tandy/Realistic
for about £30 and are, unfortunately, no longer available from new. You can
still buy them on ebay, but expect to pay up to £50, they are that good.
The thing about PZM mics is that the distance between mic and sound source
seems to have little effect - you've got to hear it to appreciate what I
mean. AND it's an unbalanced line dynamic mic, which means it will plug straight
into your camcorder, but you'll probably need to buy a £2 1/4" to 3mm adaptor.
If I had a spare camera while filming wedding speeches I'd at least have
it taking a wide shot for cuts away. It could still record the audio. If
I only had one camera, and couldn't run a lead across the floor, I'd record
the audio onto a Hi-Fi VHS VCR hidden under the table.
Brian