IAC DISCUSSION FORUMS

I know that some folks shoot in HDV, and then edit and output on standard def, with good results.
I'm wondering if anyone's actually editing in HDV.
Can I ask:
a) Which editing app do you use?
b) what kind of computer hardware is required?
c) do you export to disk or tape?
d) where can you show the movies?

Hi Billy

a) Which editing app do you use?

Apple Final Cut pro Studio

b) what kind of computer hardware is required?

Apple Power Mac G5 (7 years old) a Matrox MXO

http://www.matrox.com/video/en/products/mxo/

connected to a 2nd monitor for HD monitoring.

c) do you export to disk or tape?

Storage on backed up harddrives.

d) where can you show the movies?

For about a couple of years I have been capturing and editing in HD and archiving the footage and project files, this I can call on in the future and re-export for Blue Ray when the technology is more widespread. I export out at either native 16x9 (SDV) on DVD for festivals like the Portobello, HypTV, Supershorts, and letterboxed 4x3 (SDV) for IAC festivals.

The main reason for editing in 1080i for me is that green screen and effects work using 'Motion' or 'Shake' is a lot easier if there are more pixels to work with. there is a noticeable difference to a key pulled in HD rather than SD.
Personally I find the presentation of HDV on TV's quite unpleasant, very stark, cold and clinical. I prefer a softer feel and always add visual noise into the final export.

As I said this is my personal feeling on HD.

G

That's probably answered at least one question I have, and that relates to the pure power requirement of PC hardware, though I only know the non-apple computers (well since the Amiga 1200 ceased). A typical dual core computer should take the strain of processing HDV.
I don't know of the first set of competitions you named, but why do export to letterboxed for Biaff? May it be because you fear the projectionists couldn't handle it?
Editing in HD to get green-screen to look better sounds a good use of the format before we can show our movies on it just yet.

cheers.

Although strictly not answering the question I have some experience now in this field. I have shot in HDV for some time now but don't edit in that codec on the unanimous advice of many professionals. HDV is regarded as a great acquisition format for quasi HD (it's 1440 X 1080 as oposed to 1960) but there are problems with the Group of Pictures (GOP) system when it comes to editing as mentioned in the previous post. I upscale my HDV material (Convergent Design's HD-Connect box) to full HD for editing. I use a Duel 2.7 Ghz Power Mac G5 with about 5 TB's external drives and edit on Media 100. I downscale the final timeline to Motion JPEG B within Media 100 for encoding in BitVice for DVD's and master to DVCAM tape in the DV codec. All of course in 16:9 anamorphic aspect.
For IAC comps I sometimes letterbox a mini DV to avoid projection errors but increasingly find that 16:9 is being handled correctly.

One thing I have learnt and that is that material shot in either HD or HDV and then finally downscaled to DV produces very much better picture quality than that shot in DV.

Billy

I have had a few problems at IAC festivals especially a year or so ago hence standardising on the letterbox format for the moment.

The Old Powermac I use is a dual 2 gig Power PC processor it has 8Gb of RAM and 11 x 500 Mb to 1Tb 7200rpm firewire drives running of it. It works fine no dropped frames on capture a little slow to render compared to the quad intel Mac's I have used at work but I can live with that, I render overnight.

I also use a Powerbook Intel 1.83 Gb core duo with only 512Mb of RAM and I can edit HDV in Final Cut combined with the Matrox and an external monitor and a couple of Drives . I never edit footage on the system drive always on an external.

Its interesting that I keep on thinking that I should update and go for one of the new intel power macs but I can't really justify the expense as the current machine seems to do everything thats thrown at it.


G

Hi Billy,

1. Applications: I have Final Cut Studio 1 and Final Cut Express. I have come to the conclusion that Final Cut Express will actually do all I want to do. It converts HDV to the Apple Intermediate Codec which takes up more space but is easier on the CPU. Hard drive space is cheap so this is no problem. Final Cut Pro edits "native HDV" which is very demanding on the CPUs. Toast for creating DVDs.

2. I use an intel dual processor 24 inch iMac with 3 gb of RAM. I use external firewire HDDs. I have a 24 inch HD TV as a monitor but cannot see an image on it whilst I am editing, there is no HD output but see the image when capturing, there are two or three devices that will create a viewable HD output but at a stiff price. I also have a Sony HDV deck (plays DVCAM and miniDV both PAL and NTSC), expensive but I have a lot of legacy material on full size DVCAM cassetes.

3. I export to tape for archiving and can create BluRay DVDs on regular DVDs up to about 25 minutes using Toast.

4. At present everything is down rezed to SD for release to Festivals etc. I have a chum with a BluRay player and 52 inch LCD, stand back the pictures will blow you away!!! However, for some reason that I do not understand the down rezed to SD images are also astounding.

The future is HiDef! Hope this helps

Ned C

Forgot one important piece of information.

Final Cut Studio 1 (FCP v5) will not handle the newer AVCHD CoDec but Final Cut Express v4 will and will also take mixed CoDecs and resolutions on the timeline. So if you are looking to go HDV make sure your chosen software will handle AVCHD and mixed CoDecs.

ned c

thanks peeps
Some great answers - sounds like the mac is weeing all over its rival.

Adobe Premier 1.5 with updates can edit HDV footage...
try your PC before deciding on whether you need any major hardware upgrades... (but use full Adobe version not trial)! DAMHIK

some peeps seem to get by no probs editing 1080i on dual core based CPU's....

the Mac has always been way ahead of a PC running MS Windaz <spit>

I have a long time chum who is using Vegas v8 on a Gateway PC, dual Intel with 2 gb RAM. Edits HDV very successfully and can create BluRay discs and SD DVDs straight from the timeline (grind my teeth as no Apple software so far recognises that BluRay exists). So it's not really about the platform/OS but practical experience and personal preference. They are all just tools!

ned c

Ned
A theoretical question:

Do you know if a bluray drive would operate on a Mac running Vista over 'Boot Camp' or 'parallels for desktop' then 'Vegas 8' ?

Or is it a hardware thing ?

I ask out of curiosity as opposed to looking for a solution.

G

Graeme, Don't know the answer but an interesting question. I don't run Boot Camp on my Mac but have separate PC for the office work. Apple have been disappointingly slow in the BluRay area after all Steve Jobs enthusiasm for the HiDef world.

On another tack, I was recently given two 4 gb SDHC cards recorded on a Panasonic to download AVCHD files. Complete failure after trying everything. Is there something odd about the Panasonic version of AVCHD? I can see a folder labeled AVCHD and even found 50 clips in it with a poster frame and shot length but cannot extract them. Any suggestions?

ned c

Sorry Ned can't help you on that being a Sony man. its not something like the permissions on the folder or something like that after all a card should just be like any other drive.

G

Hi Ned

I suggest the wiki is a good starting point:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AVCHD#Panasonic

and this may help
https://eww.pavc.panasonic.co.jp/pro-av ... wnload.htm

Or you could buy a Sony Playstation!

Dave

P.S. For those not following the story of the AVCHD system, it was developed by Sony and Panasonic to encourage Blu-Ray take up and you can use the cards in a Playstation.

Dave

I don't know about HDV, don't use it myself, all my HD is in DVCProHD which I find I can edit easily on a dual core laptop running Avid MC3, with only 1TB of eSATA storage.
I have an inherent distrust of all long GOP formats.
I admit I have done a bit of HDV for work, but transcoded to DNxHD 120TR first
Dave