Cotswold IFF

[john ingham]

Michael yes your right in one way... entrants should not moan..but ! and its a big but!!! judges should also be in a position to advise...I know you said they shouldn't..but these people are chosen for their expertise..what is the point in being an expert /judge if you can not advise youngsters or new comers .... OK , I can see your point in, the film should be ready for competition standard.... but lets be honest..there are ways to deliver criticism..real good honest constructed criticism would not be taken as offence...

I can not pretend to be an expert in the filming world , but as a person who have trained many young floor layers, I have seen more than one mistake, I simply look at the good bits they do and praise them..I then point out the mistakes and ask them what they could do to overcome them.
9 times out of 10 they will sit back and start to see where they went wrong... when people can see their mistakes , they can often make good..they then start to build confidence ... if you slate them.. they don't often recover....

and believe me..there is not much difference between flooring and filming...they both end up with a product that people like to see

[TimStannard]

This is a fascinating thread - heated, yet civilised "argument". Without having seen the comments to which Lee refers, I cannot possibly comment on whether the judges are rude and disparaging or just rather blunt. In the few festivals I've entered, most judges comments have been helpful, one or two have left me confused and one or two have left me thinking the judge has missed the point (but that in itself is helpful as I have clearly faile dto get the point across). The same goes for judges comments I've seen of films by other makers. Sometime I wish judges would elaborate more, but I appreciate the time constraints.

A judge doesn't necessarily know he is making discouraging comments. For (a silly) example, imagine a maker who has already been criticised in a couple of competitions for poor sound and he's really working on that (perhaps he'd previously used an on-board mic but has now invested in an off-camera one). His latest film still has less than perfect sound, although it is a great improvement on previous efforts. The judge is unaware of this and comments on the poor sound. Hopefully the maker will have already shown it at his club where members will have told him what an improvement it is, but it would still be discouraging. (I am in no way suggesting that - even if it was possible - a judge should take "previous" into consideration)

I agree with Mike in that I would feel aggrieved with a one-liner from a judge.

I'm also inclined to agree with Michael that if you enter a competition, you should expect to be fairly criticised and accept that you may not like some of the comments.

Personally I find one of the best ways to receive advice and constructive criticism from a much wider range of people than a handful of judges, is via some of the web forums. This very forum is a perfect example of that - comment followed by question, followed by elaboration, followed by second opinion etc. And whilst the "judges" have not been selected, one very quickly learns whose opinions/comments are most valued.

[Michael Slowe]

I think that Tim has it. Exchanging films with other film makers as well as meeting in groups (clubs?) is the best way to assess your work and obtain constructive comments and suggestions. I honestly don't regard competition as the right context for this. As I've said previously, the consultation and analysis should all have been completed before submission to a competition. In fact I've just gone through this very process with an IAC member who sometimes contributes to this forum. I was happy to offer my two penny worth but whether he wants to follow any of my advice is entirely up to him of course. My thoughts might be most unhelpful and indeed, if followed, damage the film, but at least they are in his mind for consideration. By the time a judge sees the film it is really too late, going back to re edit is never a good idea in my opinion, better to move on to the next one.

I still understand the question of encouragement, particularly with youngsters, but if they have any feeling for the medium they'll soon see what's what.

[Peter Copestake]

Having been a critic of the way some judgments are expressed I would like to say that this autumn I have received comments from 3 people on the same film and they were all polite and suggested changes that I have made for BIAFF. It will be a bit sickening if judges there pick out the changes I have made for adverse criticism.

BTW someone here recently asked how one can make films if one doesn't see them. We only see TV and my productions are usually made to be shown on TV. That's not to say I don't learn from what I see - I hope I do.

Do have a happy holiday!

Peter

[Mike Shaw]

It will be a bit sickening if judges there pick out the changes I have made for adverse criticism.

The irony of it is, chances are those changes are the most likely candidates for criticism - so be prepared!

There was a situation I heard about recently (I think I may have written about it in Southern Script recently), concerning a film about a telephone call being made. First competition judges said that the voice 'at the other end of the phone' should have been quieter than the on screen speaker's voice and maybe should have been made to sound more like a telephone speaker'. Good point thought the film maker, and changed the audio accordingly. Next competition judges said the sound was up and down all over the place .... How's that for frustrating a poor film maker?!

I haven't seen or heard the film in question, but I'd say the first competition judges had the right idea. Maybe the execution just didn't come across properly - but you can see the frustration experienced by the poor film maker.

I'm sure Judges do their best. Judging one film is tricky ... judging a whole batch of say 30 in a competition, one after the other - and writing up a crit and advice on them all afterwards, mostly without an opportunity to watch the film again ...

The one thing I have learned when doing judging is that you MUST leave all personal feelings at the door, and NEVER even consider how you would have made the films being watched. You judge what the maker did and had in mind to do, and how well he succeeded in 'getting his story/message' across.