Willy wrote:
May I ask you to see the following film? It's a documentary. Length about 4 minutes. It's educational and powerful and it has lots of other qualities : http://www.midwayfilm.com I would give it a diamond award. I would only make it even a bit shorter. Wouldn't you give it an award though it is not a feature film?
Thanks for the link, Willy. I disagree that it's a documentary. Surely it's a trailer and like all good trailers it leaves the viewer begging to find out more.
It is exceptionally good, but if that was presented to me as a documentary I'd feel cheated that I hadn't been informed about anything - other than there was lots more I wanted to know about what I was seeing: where has the debris come from? Is anyone doing anything about it? What are national and international governments/charities doing? Even if the answer to all this is "and nobody is doing anything about it, nobody is taking responsibility, nobody seems to care" at least we have a conclusion
If the documentary this trails is half as good as the trailer it would certainly be deserving of a diamond in my books.
I don't know if you misunderstood my argument, Willy. I wasn't suggesting I appreciate documentaries any less than feature films. I was just suggesting that it is possibly easier to impress judges with a feature as it requires a broader set of skills than with a documentary - a view admirably contested by Michael.
Tim
Proud to be an amateur film maker - I do it for the love of it
Yes, I agree with you, Tim. On second thoughts it is rather a trailer than a documentary and I am sure that you also appreciate documentaries.
7-8 years ago I started to make dramatized documentaries : "Together with Yoda" for instance. An old man making a trip round the Cotswolds in his vintage car together with his dog Yoda. Or "Maskerade", a documentary about a famous Anglo-Belgian painter. I found a look-a-like of James Ensor. Or "Guernsey, I Love You" (together with Peter Rouillard). A young London folksinger who visits Guernsey after a trip on the Continent. He meets an attractive Guernsey girl. And finally "Say Wensleydale Cheese". A middle-aged couple follows the Pennine Way. The man wants to visit the "Black Sheep" Brewery. The lady is more interested in history. She is serious.
I made these dramatized documentaries because I wanted to be creative. Also because I don't like boring documentaries and travelogues. And finally I thought that the audience would enjoy these films. It worked well. In Belgium I received a special award for having tried to create a travelogue in a special and different way. An award for originality.
However, after some years I have the impression that more and more people don't like this style anymore. It's a bit like a trend in art. Cubism, pointillism, surrealism, dadaism,... After some time people want something else, something different. The comparison is perhaps a bit exaggerated but I am sure you understand what I mean.
Last year I attended the discussion about my Wensleydale film at the regional competition. One judge said to his colleagues : "Last year we saw a simular film made by that man". Every filmmaker has got his own style and it becomes more and more difficult to entertain the audience. BUT : trying to find something special that people have not seen yet ... that's a challenge ... I am trying hard now ... and I am enjoying it.
Willy, thanks so much for that link, I agree with you, what a wonderful film, although I'm not as sure as you that it would get a Diamond. It highlights all that needs to be said about our treatment of our planet, but obviously in a limited way. The final caption seems to indicate that this is a trailer for the main film to come so that would explain the limitations.
Willy wrote:7-8 years ago I started to make dramatized documentaries
And this, indeed, highlights the difficulty in splitting awards into "fiction" and "non-fiction". I think you're probably correct about the style having fallen out of favour in recent years. We'll occasionally see what I like to think of as little "tableaux" within a straight documentary - where the writer has to "recreate" something to illustrate the narration (eg Florence Nightingale tending a wounded soldier, or a meeting between two prominent historical figures - or peasants). However, last year's winning BIAFF club entry, "Montague Jack" was, I think pretty much all historical drama, so the genre is not totally dead yet!
Tim
Proud to be an amateur film maker - I do it for the love of it
With all due respect to Willy (and I do respect him and his films greatly) I have never thought that 'dramatised' documentaries work, neither amateur nor professional. They just don't convince, in fact they really aren't documentary at all really, just stories based on a factual event. I've now forgotten what this thread is all about, never mind, at least we're 'talking' to each other!
Yes, Tim, also "Montague Jack" was a fabulous film at BIAFF 2011. I remember that film very well. The films that you can remember are the best ones. "Montague Jack" is such an impressive and fascinating film. It's also thanks to this documentary that my friend Julian asked me to go to BIAFF with me again.
I can accept your opinion, Michael. Dramatised films don't convince, or let's say, they don't always convince. There is some lack of spontaneity in them. I sometimes feel something unnatural in my own films. I must admit it. In Dutch we say : "De inhoud is steeds wat geforceerd." I don't know how to translate it. They are stories in documentaries. But it's great fun to make them. The audience and judges enjoy them or they don't. The results are excellent or they are very bad. In Belgium you can get 85 % from one judge and 65% from a different judge in the same panel. Subjectivity plays an important role when having them evaluated.
But, indeed, we can talk about it in Weymouth, though the festival doesn't give us much time to talk.
On my way back home I will visit All Saints' again. A village church in Kent. All stained-glass windows were made by Marc Chagall. I am preparing a documentary about it. But a real one.
Yes, we swerve from the right path (read: thread) sometimes. Also in a film one must not deviate from the theme. I sometimes forget.
I agree with Tim about the problems splitting awards into "fiction" and "non-fiction" categories. There are just too many 'grey areas', I would suggest.
Take a local gymkhana . No actors. Nothing set up. "Non-fiction" . . . definitely (?). The soundtrack, however, includes a supposed conversation between two of the horses who make fun of the human competitors and spectators. "Fiction". Give it an appropriate title, say . . . "From the Horses' Mouth".
It must be a comedy fiction classification even though all the visuals were a straight record of the event.
Pete, you are joking surely? I made just such a film, with that exact title, which won an International Award ( today's Diamond) in 1975!!! You must have seen it from the library I imagine. It was I suppose, more documentary than anything, but you're right, classifying into categories would be contentious to say the least.
Michael,
No, I didn't borrow "From the Horse's Mouth" from the IAC library. I was at the London Amateur Film Festival - LAFF - at St.Ermyns in 1975 and watched it then as well as your "Skilift", which was one of my favourites on the day. Another earlier film of yours which I greatly enjoyed was "The Mill".
At that time I was Associate Editor of "Film Making" magazine after freelancing for "Amateur Photographer" in 1970 when they had a Cine section, edited by Gordon Malthouse.
pete phillips wrote:I was at the London Amateur Film Festival - LAFF - at St.Ermyns in 1975 and watched it then ...
Michael, there can be no greater accolade than someone recalling a film of yours that he saw THIRTY SEVEN YEARS ago in enough detail to cite it as an example in a forum, along with another film seen at the same event.
I know it's one of the seven deadly sins, but I think we can allow you a certain amount of pride. I can't being to put into words how impressed I am.
Tim
Proud to be an amateur film maker - I do it for the love of it
Doubles all round then (on me!) next week in Weymouth. How are we going to meet? I'm getting there hopefully in time for a bite on Friday evening but others may not. We could do it through Big Dave (he's easy to find) or put a note on the official IAC desk, there's bound to be one. Pre lunch on Saturday at the bar might work, I'll try and hang around there.
Who's going? Willy, Pete, Fraught, Tim, Col, Tom (probably working),.................
Jan and I are on welcoming duty in the hotel reception, greeting visitors, so we cannot easily get to a meeting at times when newcomers are likely to be arriving.
How about meeting Saturday afternoon around 6.30pm by the IAC desk?
There is an IAC reception schduled for 7pm so we should be able to greet each other before the evening events begin. The Saturday mini-cinema shows are due to end at 5.30pm, so those going to the gala dinner still have time to get into their finery.
Dave
Michael Slowe wrote:
Who's going? Willy, Pete, Fraught, Tim, Col, Tom (probably working),.................
I'm coming down down for the Sunday only (I have a wife who's not interested, and "family" duties), but I'll hopefully get a chance to meet one or two of you in person between screenings.
Tim
Proud to be an amateur film maker - I do it for the love of it
I'm coming down Saturday morning for the day. Will be bringing with me a couple of friends, one of whom is Seb Hall the guy behind the Red Carpet Screenings Film Festival. Happy to meet up at lunchtime for a beer?
