Time for a Change !

[Brian Saberton]

I agree with Michael. Age has nothing to do with the desire or ability to make films or to have innovative ideas. In any case I don't think we can afford to be choosy - we need to attract people of any age.

[stingman]

I agree with Michael. Age has nothing to do with the desire or ability to make films or to have innovative ideas. In any case I don't think we can afford to be choosy - we need to attract people of any age.

I know age has nothing to do with it. I`m NOT being ageist! Yes, we need to attract people of any age, but it`s the young that are our main catch. Catch them when there young. Old people tend to die! Sorry, but that the truth. Average age at our club is about 75. If they join at 70, that gives 5 years of service. If a person joins at 20, that gives 55 years. Do the Maths! Repeat, i`m not knocking the older members, i`m stateing that the younger ones will be able to do more in our clubs instead of not turning up because they have a bad foot or there day nurse says so!
If you have young members then this will attract more members. Read my previous post and not let this become an AGE this. It`s about ideas and ways to attract new members including the young.

Stingman

[ned c]

The problem we face is to attract people of any age, we would welcome in influx of 70 year old members into AMPS as well as those in their 30s/40s. It just seems that the world of n-c (amateur - get rid of that word) film making is not attractive, surprising given the enthusiasm for film and TV. I agree it is largely due to lack of visibility in the community at large. Hand out DVDs of the best winners at BIAFF to every club/group/libraray in the area.

I am a member of a group that encompasses all the performing arts, particularly theatre, the actors and theatre technicians cover the full age spectrum and all work together without age being an issue. Yes, there are some giant egos and dodgy relationships but we are never short of members or activities.

We have just run a short film script writing competition for local people, 20 scripts received, we will make the winner.

ned c

[Willy]

Why are we all getting so uptight about age? A film maker is a film maker of whatever age.
The young people who have ambitions in the industry DO join clubs.

It's the low profile of the IAC that's a problem.

Willy's suggestion of young people's competitions would only show up the huge gap in tastes and styles and would probably extinguish the old stodgy films that we make. No bad thing you might say! If you have a mixed age judging panel for existing competitions you might get a good balance and in any case good films of whatever genre will win through in the end.

Young people do NOT join our filmclubs, Michael. Young people with ambition DO. Yes, that's right. Douglas Boswell in my club is a good example and so is Samuel Faict. I gave Sammy the advice to take part in BIAFF and the Lily festival. With his diplomas he went back to his filmschool. He had been too rebellious. The headmaster accepted his apologies. I hope we can keep him for a couple of years. We also need young people who are not ambitious and who would only like to make films as hobbyists.

In my club I must often have to fight against the mentality of some older ones. They already start to criticize Sammy's films before they have seen them for the first time. Then I have to be very diplomatic.

I'm still in favour of young people's competitions. Films made by young people and judged by young people. At the same time the younger ones should also participate in the organisation of festivals for young and old. They must share the responsibility.

What's the average of our IAC "Board of Governors", of the chairmen and secretaries in our clubs in the UK and overseas, of the people whose photographs you can see in our magazines and on our websites, of our judging panels ? Luckily this year Werner Vandenbulck was willing to be a judge for BIAFF. He's in his forties and some years ago we had Romy Van Krieken. They are exceptions. It does not mean that I found the older IAC-judges of the last ten-twelve years not competent enough. On the contrary. But now films made by youngsters have less change to win. That's my feeling. We grew up in a different era. I remember that some years ago a group of young people won the Daily Mail Trophy but that was very exceptional. There is also the danger of positive discrimination.

Dave suggested : why not trying to attract people who are in their fifties ? Younger ones still have their families. They don't have so much money, etc... I partly agree with this. Afterwards I thought : at what age did we join our filmclubs ? I was in my thirties, but at the age of 25 I was already secretary of a brass band and at the age of 30 I was responsible for an important political organisation. Times have changed. It is really difficult to find young people now. There is a growing problem. Do you know any clubs with chairmen or secretaries who are still in their twenties, in their thirties and even in their forties ?

I understand Michael. He looks much younger than I do and he has no problems at all with friends who are one or two generations younger than he is. he can work together with them. But maybe Michael himself is an exception.

I also agree with Ian. Maybe more can be done to promote the IAC. Maybe not every filmmaker knows the IAC. We must also try to promote our filmclubs. A tip : we could give little cards with the names of our filmclubs to shops that sell cameras and other machines. Everyone who buys a camera gets such a little card with the address of our club, with the names of the chairman and secretary. Also the IAC could be more promoted by doing this.

[Ray Williamson]

Nobody seems to like the word "amateur", or like to be called an "amateur cinematographer".
The latter is wrong anyway, because it is the films which are amateur, not the makers.
Can we have an Institute for Non-Commercial Film Production (or something similar)?
Please?

[Dave Watterson]

Yes it would be helpful to give the IAC a higher public profile, but how can we do that within our means?

IAC has one secretary/office organiser/wonderwoman called Pamela who works about half a week for us. Just processing the memberships and the admin for the committees takes up almost all her time.

Contacting schools sounds good. As at the end of 2006 Britain had 22,156 primary and middle schools. 4,438 secondary schools. There are also various sixth form colleges and similar institutions.

Even sending an A4 sized envelope to each of the secondary schools would cost £1775 in stamps plus paper/envelopes and printing. It would take whoever sorted the pages, sealed and posted the letters at least 2 full days to do. And that is not counting the time and cost of preparing an enticing information pack.

Every school receives scores of approaches like this every week and 99% of them go straight to the recycling bin. Schools do not like to feel used !

Advertising works - there is a whole industry which tells us so - but it costs. Advertising in the classified columns of the weekend Guardian is around £50 per centimetre of a single newspaper column. A quarter-page advert in a magazine like "PC Format" costs around £750.

Keep the ideas flowing ... something will spark off someone ... it must be possible.

Dave

[stingman]

Yes it would be helpful to give the IAC a higher public profile, but how can we do that within our means?
Contacting schools sounds good. As at the end of 2006 Britain had 22,156 primary and middle schools. 4,438 secondary schools. There are also various sixth form colleges and similar institutions.
Even sending an A4 sized envelope to each of the secondary schools would cost £1775 in stamps plus paper/envelopes and printing. It would take whoever sorted the pages, sealed and posted the letters at least 2 full days to do. And that is not counting the time and cost of preparing an enticing information pack.

Dave

I agree with you David on the logistics of it all, but then if we want something, we have to do something about it to make it work.

Do we REALLY want more people in our clubs and IAC? If we REALLY want them (and it`s not just a good idea or the right idea) then we/someone has to act! If we don`t physicly act then there will be no change and it will all die a slow death. For things to change we have to put our foot where our mouth is. Sometimes funds have to be found, even if something has to give. Someone would have to stick and fold letters and money would have to be found for it! I`m sure the IAC has a bit of BOB or know of someone with a bit of money!

Stingman

[Willy]

Yes it would be helpful to give the IAC a higher public profile, but how can we do that within our means?



Dave

Yes, we are checkmated now by what Dave says. We need money ! Advertising costs. Couldn't we have a chat with the Minister of Education and ask him to help us ? There must be art classes in Britain. I'm sure about that. In our European School in Brussels the British were excellent at drama, music, etc... Filmmaking should also be in the curriculum.

Or the European Community may help us. They spend quite a lot of money on unuseful things. I have lot of experience. Sometimes it was really disgusting. The European Community is a community of decadence. They can't remove me from my job anymore. I left the European school some years ago. They even bought cameras that were used only once. We should not be afraid to ask our national and even our international politicians. We should have more guts.

We could organize a meeting with all our clubs, this in order to start an advertising campaign. It's also in the interest of our clubs that the IAC is a strong umbrella organisation. It already is, but we must try to make the institute younger and even stronger. I was a political secretary for six years and I had to organize election campaigns in my constituency. I found it fascinating, but to be honest I would not have the energy anymore to do all these things again.

Yes, I know what Dave is going to say : in Belgium filmclubs are subsidized. It's easy to talk like that. In some way he's right. Anyhow, we must always try and try. We must try to be inventive to get something. I am the chairman of a filmclub with a clubhouse that belongs to our community. We don't have to pay anything for it. We don't have to hire it. We don't have to pay for central heating. Totally free. The clubhouse is only for us ! I only had to promise something : every four of five years we must make a film about our community, about events in our town, etc... Such a film made by professionals costs maybe 35,000 euros. So our community can do something for us in return.

Eureka ! I've got it ! We must make films to raise funds for our clubs and for the IAC. We are not checkmated yet ! No all joking apart. Our American friends need new ideas, but so do we ?

[Willy]

Yes it would be helpful to give the IAC a higher public profile, but how can we do that within our means?

Dave

Money !
Maybe the answer is not blowing in the wind. Jan has written it on the home page : "Throughout February 2008 the Government is running the first ever national survey of amamteur arts groups in England covering music .... visual arts (including film) and crafts. The plan is to get a clearer picture of amateur arts in England and how they could be better supported." In the first place arts groups can be supported by giving their money and by offering them facilities.

There is only one danger. The Government wants to see results. There must be progress ! A higher level ! Quality ! It means professionally made films ! That's what is happening in Belgium. It discourages hobbyists. But of course "You Never Can Tell" said Bernard Shaw.

Britain has an excellent reputation in filmmaking just like the USA. Belgian amateur filmmakers who have taken part in a British international film festival are proud when they receive a British certificate with *** or words like "gold", "silver" and "bronze" on it. We must do everything we can to support the IAC. Perhaps it's strange to hear this from an overseas filmmaker, but of course I sometimes feel more British than Belgian.

[ned c]

I think we are debating two subjects.

First, the national organisations like the IAC, AMPS etc that provide a central support to film makers both individualy and in clubs. Run international/national Festivals, provide a journal/newsletter that provides a national overview and special services like the copyright service of the IAC, information websites and forums such as this. These organisations are national treasures and need to be supported by all n-c film makers. The biggest problems they face are getting people to take on the admin tasks and funding. Their most urgent need is wide recognition. They need marketing to the broader film making community. Its great having Lord Putnam say nice things about n-c film making, even greater if the message went out to a much wider audience. How many hundreds of copies of the IAC 75th film have gone out into the community at large?

Say "amateur films" to most of the population and their impression is of poorly shot, unedited holiday films. Their perception probably does not go beyond this. So there is a huge task of realistic perception of what we do. Unfortunately this mis-perception extends to many young/new film makers who probably don't enter the BIAFF because of that word. To the professionals anything that is poorly shot/edited is labelled "amateur"; one must conclude they don't look too closely at much of their own work.

What the national organisations most urgently need is an active and enthusiastic PR person to get the message out there.

Second there are local clubs. There have always been a few very successful clubs and as far back as I can remember (the 60s) the rest have been in decline. However, clubs can play an important part in recognition for n-c film makers. My first exposure to n-c films was in the 60s at a public showing by Colchester Cine Club, all "real" films and very well made. I was astounded. My most recent experience is that n-c film making works well as a part of a total "performing arts" group with shared work and funding.

Just some early morning thoughts ( I am 7 hours behind the UK)

ned c

[Ray Williamson]

I hope you will all be at the SERIAC Festival, in Tonbridge, on Saturday, so we can talk about it some more!

[Michael Slowe]

Ned's right, the dreaded word 'amateur' is the killer. I always just say "I make films" or "I'm a film maker". If they want to know more I explain the non commercial aspect of my activity. The best defence is if they can see a half decent film and they are very surprised. Have you noticed that everytime the TV stations have to show a shaky, blurred picture of some disaster or other they make quite sure it's clearly sub titled "Amateur Video" ?

[Willy]

"Michael Slowe": Ned's right, the dreaded word 'amateur' is the killer.

NON-COMMERCIAL FILMMAKERS !

Yes, I agree with Ned, with Michael and Ray. We must avoid the word "amateur". I will do my best to use the word n-c filmmaker in the future.

Maybe an idea !
Dave asked us to keep the ideas flowing.
Maybe an other one :

One of my friends is the organiser of events to commerate the First World War. Now he has made a leaflet to promote his next event. He has sent it to many friends and he has asked to have it printed and to distribute it.

I understand that we cannot ask Pamela to do more. Maybe one of us can make a pamphlet or leaflet or brochure, this to promote the IAC... AMPS... and other organisations. It's sent to Pamela by email. She asks all the chairmen or secretaries of our clubs by email to have it printed and to distribute it. This is not an expensive operation for the IAC itself. Of course we ask the clubs to help the IAC. Maybe some have enough funds to have the leaflets printed, other ones don't have any money for such a publicity campaign. But what can be done can be done.

IAC in national magazines !
The IAC and the Guernsey Lily Festival are not unknown in Belgium. Why not ? I asked Dave Watterson and Mary Rouillard to contact our Belgian umbrella organisation CvB in order to promote the festivals on the CvB-website. Result : the last two years it appeared on the website ... and in our national magazine "Beeldexpressie". Thanks to internet we can do quite a lot.[/b]