EDITING BY JUDGES ???

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Dave Watterson
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EDITING BY JUDGES ???

Post by Dave Watterson »

Electronic Eye - the magazine of Sydney Video Makers Club - reached me today. They are considering a change to their competition rules:

Submitting two very similar entries - rule update

Two videos were entered in the last competition which were extremely similar and, whilst this is absolutely acceptable within the current rules, the Committee has reviewed the situation and believes this is an anomaly which should be removed. The Committee felt there was a risk that editors or directors, unable to decide which edit they prefer, could submit multiple entries and effectively ‘edit by judge’.


So far as I can recall the only film maker to submit multiple versions of some of his work to BIAFF is Howard Smith, though there may be others. Howard usually offers very different cuts of the same drama. It does not bother me at all ... and, like Howard himself, I smile to see that the various versions sometimes get significantly different gradings from the BIAFF judges. (And of course Howard pays for each submitted entry!)

But what do others think? Is this as good a way as any other to sort out which is the better cut of a movie?
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TimStannard
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Re: EDITING BY JUDGES ???

Post by TimStannard »

Dave Watterson wrote: But what do others think? Is this as good a way as any other to sort out which is the better cut of a movie?
It's certainly an interesting way of seeing how different cuts evoke different responses. But there are too many variables - if the judges of two versions are different, they will quite possibly have different views anyway. If the judges are the same, when viewing the second version, they already have the baggage of having seen the other version.
As an entrant, I'd say "Why not? I want as many comments as possible about my film."
As a festival organiser, I'd say "Why not. I want as many entries as possible."
As a judge, I'd probably say "Bloody Cheek" and mark the second version I saw down!

And we have to be mindful of that last one. What makes festivals (well, competitions, anyway) popular is the ability to receive comments from respected judges. Judges generally do it for the love of it (if they're lucky they get petrol money and a bottle) so It's probably not a good idea to take the Mickey!

If you really want to get a view of which version is "better", do what Michael Slowe advocates and show versions to a selected test audience (admittedly easier said than done)
Tim
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col lamb
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Re: EDITING BY JUDGES ???

Post by col lamb »

Why not?

As long as each version brings enjoyment to the viewer then that is all that matters, or is it?

That said, take a long movie (c30m) like Red Rose that did really well last year, if a different version was shown at BIAFF I would not like it as it would take away the opportunity for two or three other movies to be seen.

To present both movies for constructive comment is one thing. To swamp a competition with multiple versions like original, directors cut, writers own, producers pitch, actors acclaim, test run trial etc get the picture?

My own movies that I sent last year to BIAFF were not the only version, both had different cuts available but I only sent in one version of each.
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Willy
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Re: EDITING BY JUDGES ???

Post by Willy »

I think it is not a good idea to submit two or more similar entries. The Committee is right. Maybe some judges would not appreciate it.

But you could do the following thing: you could show your film at your club first. Your clubmates tell you which version is the best for BIAFF. That's what a club is for. After that you take a decision.

You could also take part in the club competition, the regional and national festivals first. Each time you (should) receive the judges'comments. After that you make a revised version. Of course if you agree with the criticism and suggestions at the different levels.

An alternative: you take part in BIAFF with your "best" version. You receive the judges' comments. After that you change (= improve) your movie. The following year you submit the revised version. If necessary you change the title of your movie.

I myself always make three versions. One for the Belgian festivals which is in Dutch, one for a specific audience* and one subtitled film for BIAFF or any other international festival.

*By specific audience I mean the following thing. An example: a documentary about education will be interesting for teachers or other people who work at schools. Mostly these films are longer. My versions for a wide audience are shorter, but sometimes they are not short enough.
Willy Van der Linden
Michael Slowe
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Re: EDITING BY JUDGES ???

Post by Michael Slowe »

I agree with what most of you are saying, it would be, in my opinion, ridiculous to submit two cuts of the same film to a given festival, in fact, I would refuse to accept it were I an official. Most film makers prepare varying versions of a film, as Willy puts it so well, there are varying audience requirements. The film that I'm just finishing has two versions, one four minutes longer than the other. This is because some people appearing in the film would probably like to have the longer version.

As to expecting judges to help you decide on an edit, I'm speechless! Someone referred to my method of showing a rough cut to selected individuals. I've just been through that process and it was extremely helpful in arriving at some decisions. Just sitting beside a knowledgable viewer somehow gives one the feeling if something isn't working. I don't know what it is, maybe telepathy, but it works! I know plenty of people 'in the business' who are happy to review a cut but usually I prefer to rely on 'the punter' who is always seeing films, either in a cinema or on TV. I've often said, the maker is not always giving the film a critical enough judgement (ever?), he needs more, but certainly not from a festival judge, by then it's far, far too late.
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