Re: BIAFF 2012 RESULTS

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Dave Watterson
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Re: BIAFF 2012 RESULTS

Post by Dave Watterson »

Would they really have swapped pigeons to communicate over such a short distance?
This question from the man whose signature line reads: "If you walk you're gonna get there, though it takes a little longer"?!?!?!?!?!

It is romantic, like passing notes in the classroom, choosing a favourite song, handing over a single red rose ... or walking to enjoy the journey.
After all, what is more likely to induce love than a romantic letter doused in pigeon-poo?

Dave
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TimStannard
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Re: BIAFF 2012 RESULTS

Post by TimStannard »

Dave Watterson wrote:This question from the man whose signature line reads: "If you walk you're gonna get there, though it takes a little longer"?!?!?!?!?!
:lol: :lol: :lol: Nice observation, Dave. Interestingly I've never taken that line to refer to enjoying the journey, I've seen it as far more mundane - along the lines of "keep working at it and eventually you'll succeed". I use it as personal encouragement - particularly apt for my amateur film making: I may not have the skills or the equipment of the pros, but given enough time and effort Iit is still possible to make a perfectly acceptable film.

The line is from "Celebration Day" by Led Zeppelin which people have interpreted in a number of ways (including being about the American Black Civil Rights Movement), but none seem to suggest any romance of the journey, so my more mundane interpretation seems more likely in that context.

However, your suggestion that the protaganists in PIGEON POST comminicate as they do, because it's romantic, is a good one and will allow me to enjoy the memory of a lovely film all the more. Thanks.

I learn so much on this forum :)
Tim
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Michael Slowe
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Re: BIAFF 2012 RESULTS

Post by Michael Slowe »

Great posts, the explanations are illuminating, we really are getting interllectual involving Schiller, thank you Dave.

However, no one has taken me up on my moan that the top prize went to a full blown feature film with a fairly familiar story line rather than to a really deep (intellectual?) wonderfully crafted short work of art, Vincent. You all must have seen this film yet no comments on it whatsoever. If you all can work out One Moment, then surely Vincent deserves some analysis?
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Willy
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Re: BIAFF 2012 RESULTS

Post by Willy »

Storm at sea
Last night we came back home. The sea was not calm and we deciced to cross the Channel by the Chunnel (car on train in tunnel). Very expensive, but yes, ... we had had a very enjoyable time in Weymouth. A great festival. There were quite a lot of people , but I missed some friends.

Missed "Vincent"
I also missed the second part of "The Award Winners Show". I had lunch with my best English friend Brian who lives in Devon. We had lunch in the "Turk's Head" at Chickerell near Weymouth. So, I missed "Vincent". That's a pity! Most friends (also here on this form) said it was the best film. I met the Dutch filmmaker Berry van der Vorst in Bedford five or six years ago. Of course the best film must win the festival. But knowing that Berry is a "regular". One of my bad characteristics is that I prefer regulars to "flashes in the pan". I hope you understand what I mean. Already in Bedford Berry won a well deserved diamond award. "Derde keer, goed keer!", Berry. Next time the Daily Mail Trophy.

"Angels on the Rail"
The best diamond film that I could see was "Angels on the Rail" by Moving Pictures, Czech Republic... "Moving Pictures" ... You are right, Michael, we see such movie pictures on TV every week. Me, too, I have my doubts. The second letter of BIAFF is I (International)... OK. But the third letter is A (....). It means .... How often did we have a discussion about it on the forum? I appreciated the story, but not the complete storyline. It was too long. Some parts could have been deleted. They also said it about my own film "Say Wensleydale Cheese!", but here it was even worse. Some parts were useless or not functional. However, the acting was superb! I enjoyed the physiognomy of some actors. The thick German soldier for instance. I didn't like his face from the beginning onwards. That was good. And also the face of the "idiot"... Casting is something very important. A pity that I couldn't always read the subtitles. I remember the brilliant projection in Royal Tunbridge Wells. A screen in the middle of the room ... But,... my congratulations to the organisers of BIAFF 2012!
Everything was well-organized.

"Pigeon Post" British film was best
The film that really deserved "The Daily Mail Trophy" was "Pigeon Post"!!!! (5 stars). That's my opinion. It was not only the best British film. It was also the best international film. A romantic story... but why not? Very original. Warm colours. Excellent acting.

I also enjoyed "Daylight". The feature film about the young man who wanted to commit suicide. It reminded me of a film made by Ken Wilson. I still have the impression that serious films get better results.

I told Mike Shaw that I always enjoy his films. I mean it. They offer pure entertainment. "Picture Picture" got 4 stars. Ok. No problem, but just like Tim's Merry Christmas 2010" they were enjoyable intermezzi in a programme with serious films.

"More than Meets the Eye", a real documentary! Yellow jersey for Alan
The last few weeks we had (friendly!!!!) discussions about feature films and documentaries at festivals or competitions. "More than Meets the Eye", a real documentary by Alan Atkinson, is very informative. Very illustrative.
Very entertaining. Very clear for simple technical minds like mine. Alan is always very creative. He often uses special effects that are spectacular, well chosen, and very useful. I also remember his other films. For instance the one about the warming uo of the earth. If his film would have won the trophy... Who would have objected to it? Alan deserves the "yellow jersey" When thinking of all the films he has made the last ten years...

Kate
My own "Say Wensleydale Cheese" didn't deserve more than 4 stars, but I was very happy when a young lady said to me while she was leaving the "Rembrandt Hotel" : "Hey, I enjoyed your film very much!" She gave her little card with email address. It says : Kate Sullivan, director/animator. She gave it to me and she was gone... If I could make an appointment with this young lady ... but I am in my mid-sixties... By the way ... I was the one who lost his wallet on Saturday Night... Kate was the one who lost her wallet on Sunday Morning. The wallets were re-united with their owners at the end of BIAFF 2012. Up to Chesferfield now ! I have already started to prepare my next films.

I Love South Korea
One more thing: Half an hour after BIAFF I met the South Korean group in the streets of Weymouth. I told them about my silver in Seoul last year. They remembered my film "Say Wensleydale Cheese". My wife Vera and my other friends received a token : a plastic mirror. I received a little bell with a fish. "It will bring good luck", the lady said. Next year "The Daily Mail Trophy" will be mine...!!!!! No, I prefer good health and enough energy to make good films. I have already started to prepare the next one.
Willy Van der Linden
Mike Shaw

Re: BIAFF 2012 RESULTS

Post by Mike Shaw »

My memory has gone hazy ... was 'Vincent' the film about the Guardian Angel? I need to see some pictures of it to remind me ... or be reminded of the plot.

That's one of the problems of seeing so many great films in such a short time span.

I liked the Painter, and was dumb enough to ask Michael how he, like Bob Lorimer, was able to get such great shots of himself... I thought that the sitter for the Painter was Michael. Slap-head time for me!

I'm afraid if I had been judging my film, it would have been a 3-star (which was my estimation for it). I was a bit embarrassed that it got 4 ... and was then shown on the Sunday ... I think that is a benefit of making 'filler films', which is what I like doing!
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Dave Watterson
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Re: BIAFF 2012 RESULTS

Post by Dave Watterson »

Glad you got back home safely, Willy. Of course it was a small shock to see you looking less than 100% well, but appearance was forgotten as soon as we began chatting. Vera and your friends are really great "festival people" - they seem to love meeting other enthusiasts as much as seeing great movies. Wherever your group was, we found laughter.

Michael - I would love to comment on Vincent but I hardly saw any films over the weekend. Its maker, Berry, is a very nice chap. Even when there was a small row about him selling copies of Rex his last BIAFF winner, he remained calm and pleasant. We hoped to meet up, but he married last year and the couple are expecting their first child at the start of May, so it was not a good time for daddy to be in another country. I know he reads these forums sometimes, so he may offer his own thoughts on his film. Of course he may be too busy reading forums about babycare!

One bonus of being on "meet and greet" duty was that I also met Kate Sullivan and her friend, New Zealand actress, Jenna. They had found news of the festival on the BBC News Page and came down from London for the weekend. She studied film and has managed to get work as a freelance animator working on commercials and mangas.

ANY THOUGHTS ON ORGANISING FUTURE BIAFFs ?

I know that IAC Council and future BIAFF host regions will be interested to know what you thought worked specially well this year and what might be tweaked to do even better in future. The system of projection at Tunbridge (two screens back-to-back in the middle of a long hall and a projector at each end showing simultaneously) was mentioned by Willy and many others as a better way to view, especially since it means there are fewer rows of seats at each side and therefore fewer heads between you and the subtitles.

There were a couple of glitches but I was impressed by the way complete programmes, including Weymouth trailer and captions between films were all assembled on Blu-Ray discs beforehand. (I did not hear a single cry of "wrong format" all weekend ... which I have heard in many languages and many events over the last few years.)

The sound system, especially in the main cinema, was outstanding. I believe it was the result of some serious "networking" with musicians to borrow loudspeakers and the technical team from Bournemouth working their magic with sound analysers and equalisers.

What else?

Dave
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TimStannard
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Re: BIAFF 2012 RESULTS

Post by TimStannard »

I thought VINCENT was a fascinating film, albeit with a rather depressing fatalistic message. It was very well acted and filmed - I thought the Guardian Angel character himself was particularly convincing. The scenario certainly appealed to me more than ANGELS ON THE RAIL, but I wouldn't necessarily agree that it was any more original. I agree it was more of a work of art: the lighting & composition of the shots seemed to add another dimension to the story, whereas those in ANGELS simply illustrated the story (not that there's anything wrong in that).

I'd love to see VINCENT again, to see if I can derive more meaning from it, but to me it seemed a quite straightforward message about fatalism and not being able to beat the system, no matter how strong one's convictions. I'm sure there was plenty of sub-text which passed me by on first viewing.

It was interesting to be able to compare and contrast two films on the Sunday with similar "Guardian Angel" themes. VINCENT was very much a "filmic" film with rather a dark and somber message. JUMP, on the other hand, was very much a video - making use of crash pans and desaturating the angel and, of course, that wonderful steadycam shot taking in what looked like a complete circuit around the bandstand. It was scripted and shot in very much a "video" style - something for the MTV generation (though without being annoying). I'd had the pleasure of seeing it a month before in the Staines hosted Inter Club Competition where, criminally in my view, the judges didn't place it (looks over shoulder to check said judges aren't reading)

I have to say, though, the one film which affected me the most was THE LETTER. I'm not exactly known for my sensitivity, but I've seen it three time now and every time it has brought a tear to my eye. Just a perfect two minutes of performance, pace and exactly the right music.

Willy, it was a delight to meet you. I'm so chuffed that you introduced yourself to me. It is a shame you missed VINCENT as your opinions would be of interest to all of us, I'm sure. And I agree with you about Alan's MORE THAN MEETS THE EYE - what a thoroughly absorbing film which should be mandatory viewing for all GCSE (secondary school) Science students in the UK. Wonderful use of images, diagrams and models, coupled with a simple, but never condescending explanations. Who needs Prof. Brian Cox?
Tim
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Brian Saberton
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Re: BIAFF 2012 RESULTS

Post by Brian Saberton »

I'm still gathering my thoughts after a terrific weekend of films, entertaining chat and good company! I too was very impressed with the quality of picture and sound in the main cinema and with how good our own film, Torment, looked and sounded when shown on the Saturday. By one of those quirky coincidences one of the projection team is a friend of my cousin in Yorkshire - it sure is a small world. I think that the judges must have had a very difficult job in sorting out the top awards this year but I thought myself that Angels on the Rail was the best of the diamonds, though I could have done without the very long credits at the end. I have to confess however that my personal favourite on the day was Pigeon Post and I was a bit disappointed that it didn't make it into the diamond category. There's a lot to be said for relatively straightforward story telling, and viewing the films with a judges hat on is different to watching as an audience member, however, much though I admired One Moment it ultimately left me a little bit cold. Similarly Vincent is a very sophisticated film, imaginitively made and I enjoyed it but felt that, though thoroughly deserving of a diamond award, it didn't quite hit the spot for the Daily Mail trophy. It was also great to catch up with everyone and I'm now looking forward to Chesterfield!
Brian Saberton
Mike Shaw

Re: BIAFF 2012 RESULTS

Post by Mike Shaw »

I must admit The Letter has choked me up every time I've seen it - and that is about 3 or 4 times now. On Sunday I thought - well, it won't choke me up this time. But it did. The smile and the tear on that little girl's face ... very very moving.

As for how BIAFF can be improved ...

Why not put the subtitles at the TOP of the picture ... ???
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TimStannard
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Re: BIAFF 2012 RESULTS

Post by TimStannard »

Mike Shaw wrote: Why not put the subtitles at the TOP of the picture ... ???
I'd have to put my varifocals on upside down!

Rather more seriously, I'm not sure it would feel "right". It seems to me to be a bit unnatural to have text at the top. Very rarely do we see anything other than maybe a logo or something which doesn't change frequently (like the day on a weather forecast or a score in a football match) placed at the top of a screen. Captions, ticker-tape rolling news as well as subtitles are always along the bottom. Given that when screens are partly obscured, it is more common for the top to be visible to more people than the bottom, one would have thought that, all other things being equal, the top would be the obvious place for subtitles - yet we rarely, if ever see this.

I'm sure that some of this is down to composition - shots tend more often to be composed along the line of the upper third and so upper subtitles are far more likely to interfere with the picture,but I wonder if there are other forces at play.
Tim
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Dave Watterson
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Re: BIAFF 2012 RESULTS

Post by Dave Watterson »

In fact a year or so ago, Jean-Pierre Hue, who was at BIAFF with his wife Annie, did put supertitles on his film. They were certainly readable but although I watched the movie several times it never felt comfortable.

Tim is right that the top of the image often has the eyes of characters ... and given a choice I would rather have titles over their mouths than their eyes.

Of course for BIAFF the problem is that we do not put the subtitles on ... it is done by the entrants. We could ask them to use supertitles but would they make a special print for us?

Dave
tom hardwick
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Re: BIAFF 2012 RESULTS

Post by tom hardwick »

And a big problem with subtitlers is that they *often* continue the same title across a scene change. The flash as the scene cuts makes me read the same subtitle yet again, and by the end of the film you feel you've read a novel but never had an opportunity to see the actor's eyes (Dave). It's such an elementary blunder, yet you see it done on TV every now and again.

Some editors even make the same blunder with their opening titles, having the same words cross many different scenes. Why is it so few film-makers seem to get an honest pair of eyes to view their film?

tom.
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Re: BIAFF 2012 RESULTS

Post by Peter Copestake »

I've done this, Tom, and didn't think anything of it until it was pointed out by Dave or Jan I think it was as it had never occurred to me that it was wrong. They, if it was they, the judges anyway, said I needn't have put a place name on as it was in the commentary. Again, it was done without thinking enough, probably, but for the reason that, at the time, I felt a lot of people might not know the place as well as the judges evidently did and personally find it helpful to SEE the name of a place rather than just hear it.

This is different from the main argument at the moment about sub- or super titles. Foreign entrants might expect the whole frame to be visible, I expect, and I wonder if the wish to have the picture as large as possible hasn't got in the way of visibility, ie it might be better to have a screen that everyone could see in its entirety rather than one that fills the gap between floor and ceiling as much as possible.

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Willy
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Re: BIAFF 2012 RESULTS

Post by Willy »

Yes, Tom is right when he says that subtitlers "often" continue the same title across a scene change and that sometimes you feel you've read a novel ... Subtitling a film is not easy.

I was a bit disappointed when I saw a Belgian film at BIAFF, a film that I had translated for subtitles. Mind: my translations are always corrected by ... The sentences in the film "Sisters" ran from the far left to the far right. Hopefully you understand what I mean. It was just like watching a tennis match. I had to move my head from the left to the right all the time. My Belgian friend had better cut the long sentences into two parts. So there is also a linguistic problem.

It's also important that the spelling is correct from the beginning till the end. A mistake can be a distraction. It happened to me. I had made one. I had been unattentive when subtitling my film.

Also this: when I make a film I must always make a second version. I mean a subtitled one. "Three films" means "six films". Three films in my own language (Dutch) for Belgian competitions and three in English for international competitions. In December/January I am always in a hurry. If I were an Englishman ... The English don't have that problem. English is spoken all over the world. You are lucky!

Of course everybody agrees: at international festivals it is good that all subtitles can be seen very easily. There is a solution: the winners' show could take place in an auditorium. Just like at Unica in Luxembourg, Seoul... (I remember from pictures, but maybe I am wrong). Or at our regional and national competitions in Belgium. But I know ... organizing a festival in a hotel has its charm and I don't want to cause irritation. I remember a "braveheart" who made that suggestion some years ago.
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Dave Watterson
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Re: BIAFF 2012 RESULTS

Post by Dave Watterson »

We have slipped sideways into discussing subtitles ... but they are often an irritant at BIAFF. Willy is right, we should at least consider hiring a cinema or theatre with raked seating for the Awards Show and bussing delegates from the hotel to see it. That would add a sense of occasion and allow us all to see subtitles.

As it happens I am putting subtitles onto the British programme for UNICA at this moment, so I perked up when Tom mentioned it.

The first duty of a subtitler is to make sure the audience understand the essential elements of the film - whether it is a documentary or a drama. Those elements may include written notes, signs and so on.

We speak much faster than most of us can read. For UNICA I am also aware that though we subtitle English films with French and German text, for many delegates all three languages are "foreign". It takes longer to read in your second ot third language. That means you must be ruthless in trimming spoken words and all too often losing some minor jokes or word-play along the way.

I try to write names only the first time they are spoken - just so that viewers realise what they are. Thereafter they join words like "yes", "OK", "aaargh" and "rock music" that I hardly ever translate or subtitle.

My rule of thumb is to write 30 characters a line and have that on screen for three seconds if possible. (It very often is not possible.) But that does mean sometimes running subtitles across more than one shot. That said, whenever possible I do try to start and end subtitles with the start and ending of shots, for just the reason Tom described.

It is also vital to leave people time to look at the pictures!

I have been doing this for a decade and still often cannot make ideal subtitles. Pity the film maker who is trying it for the first time.

[I should make clear that my role is the timing, placing and actual overlaying of the subtitles. I occasionally try my hand at translation, but mostly that is done by people with a much better command of French and German than I have.]

Willy must be the foreigner who has presented more films at BIAFF than any other. He uses different techniques to make his Belgian films accessible to us. His style of film often allows him to have a voice-over narrator and he works with various actors to do an English version. He will use subtitles sparingly when there is no other choice. And he plans many of his films so that words are not essential for long sequences when his lovely pictures convey the meaning.

[It feels odd calling Willy a "foreigner" since he is more British than the British in many ways.

- Dave
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