2010 INTERNATIONAL COMPETITION RESULTS

A forum for sharing views on the art of film, video and AV sequence making as well as on competitions, judging and festivals.
tom hardwick
Posts: 914
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 9:59 am

Re: 2010 INTERNATIONAL COMPETITION RESULTS

Post by tom hardwick »

A really excellent weekend, thoroughly enjoyed meeting up with you all and the films were deep-breath inspiring.
User avatar
Dave Watterson
Posts: 1872
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2007 11:11 pm
Location: Bath, England
Contact:

Re: 2010 INTERNATIONAL COMPETITION RESULTS

Post by Dave Watterson »

Broadly agree with you about the films, Tom. The wide range shown and the high standard evident is heartening.

Who will join me in a campaign to cheer louder than the judges did for Poo - 2 stars from an 8 year old Scots girl and Rainbow Angel - 4 stars?

You can see both on Bijou BIAFF 2010 - http://www.theiac.org.uk/central/biaff2 ... f2010.html

-Dave
Michael Slowe
Posts: 807
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 4:24 pm

Re: 2010 INTERNATIONAL COMPETITION RESULTS

Post by Michael Slowe »

I too would join the others in saying how enjoyable the week end was, Sod's Law of course that the sun shone continually!

The hotel did well I thought and the food the best for a BIAFF that I can remember.

As to the films, I have I think, posted on another thread (the structure of forums always confuses me!) but I do think that the gulf has widened between the best and the rest. I couldn't agree more with Dave when he wonders at the 4 stars for 'Angel', and personally I picked 'Between' as the winner. That's the Polish old woman moving into her flat and not replacing a missing front door. Having said that, the winner was a tour de force and a genuinely important social document and deserves a wider distribution which, judging by the credits, it might get. Once again the 'story; films were, in my humble opinion, generally poor. Mostly great production values wasted on unbelievable and sometimes poorly acted stories. On the other hand we also saw documentaries of the type seen on TV every night and not as good, with the notable exception of the wonderful French production in the Yemen, "In the Grip of Khat". Not your run of the mill travelogue but a message brilliantly conveyed. How that didn't get the photography award I can't understand - that went to a very boringly photographed view of an arctic region.

The aspect ratio question does need to be addressed but it didn't cause as much inconvenience as some have written. The golden rule is, as someone has written - there should be only two settings - true 16:9 anamorphic and 4:3. The problem arises when a 16:9 aspect film has been letterboxed. That should be regarded as 4:3 and should be labelled as such. Never write letterboxed on the label because some projectionists then think they should set the projector to 16:9.

I would like to say "see you all in Harrogate" but that week end is my Golden Wedding anniversary and I very much doubt I'll get leave of absence for that! Sod's Law again, I'll win the Daily Mail!!!
tom hardwick
Posts: 914
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 9:59 am

Re: 2010 INTERNATIONAL COMPETITION RESULTS

Post by tom hardwick »

Rainbow Angel - only four stars??!? I slapped my forehead in disbelief having watched that film. I'm not ashamed to admit that I was moved to tears, and was pleased I could hide in the dark.

Technically it was superb. Most obviously shot on a vDSLR, we silently listen to the child explaining why his sibling is so battered and bruised. The minute dof concentrates the viewer's mind, and you can't tear your eyes away.

Four stars? I insist I'm on next year's judging panel to stop injustices like this happening again.

Any chance we could get a sub-titled version of it up on You tube David?

tom.
tom hardwick
Posts: 914
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 9:59 am

Re: 2010 INTERNATIONAL COMPETITION RESULTS

Post by tom hardwick »

Michael - you say, 'The problem arises when a 16:9 aspect film has been letterboxed. That should be regarded as 4:3 and should be labelled as such'.

Can't agree. Rainbow Angel (amongst others) were 16:9 films that had been letterboxed to give various aspect ratios, generally approaching 2:1. Label them 16:9 I say.

But I agree with Dave W. The 16:9 projection of a 4:3 film about a ballet dancer made her fat and wide, so what a film to do it to! But I did have my suspicions that the timeline edit had mixed up the aspect ratios and the fault wasn't all down to the projectionist. This had probably come about because some of the movie material looked like it had originated on a point 'n' shoot digi-camera, with inserts from a video camera.

tom.
Geoff Addis
Posts: 73
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:56 pm

Re: 2010 INTERNATIONAL COMPETITION RESULTS

Post by Geoff Addis »

A great shame about the projection of 'My point of view - a diabetic journey, it completely ruined one of the most moving documentaries that I have seen. Fortunately, I have twice seen it projected correctly in 16:9 and I only wish that I could boast that it was my production. The video diary footage taken by Fiona was indeed 4:3.

Geoff
chrisk

Re: 2010 INTERNATIONAL COMPETITION RESULTS

Post by chrisk »

South Downs Video and Film Makers will be hosting the Albany Inter-club competition this Sunday with nine entries from clubs in Sussex and surrounding areas. We are very conscious of poor projection, especially wrong aspect ratio, at these events and are making every effort to get it right. Not all entrants have given full information about the projection requirements, but all videos have been previewed and notes taken to use on the day. Only 16:9 or 4:3 aspects will be used, manually selected.

I am also including a page in the program to illustrate how we will handle the projection, and the text of this note is given below. Diagrams will also be included to clarify our methods:

"Projection at the Albany Challenge, SDVFM Ferring 2010"

"Following representations from previous Albany participants, all videos are shown using the original media and in the format as submitted. Equipment is provided for playing standard definition videos prepared on mini-DV tape, S-VHS/VHS tape or DVD."

"The projector has a native 16:9 aspect ratio matched by a 10ft (3m) wide screen. The various formats are displayed as follows:"

"Any true widescreen video with 16:9 aspect ratio is displayed full screen." (Illustration)

"A 4:3 format video is displayed as a 'pillar-box', full height but less than the full screen width." (Illustration)

"Any video that has been masked to play within another format is displayed as a 'letter-box' in the central area of the full screen." (Illustration)

"The format has been determined by the information provided in the entry form, on the packaging or the video header. If not known, the display method has been chosen by the projection team."

"Audio presentation is in stereo. Surround sound is not supported."

Do you think this will be useful to the participants and audience? Any ideas how the methods or notes could be improved?

Chris
tom hardwick
Posts: 914
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 9:59 am

Re: 2010 INTERNATIONAL COMPETITION RESULTS

Post by tom hardwick »

Looks good Chris. On a tekkie note I'd like to know if the projected image is over or underscanned, because a lot of people seemed surprised at BIAFF's overscanning.
chrisk

Re: 2010 INTERNATIONAL COMPETITION RESULTS

Post by chrisk »

Hi Tom,

The projector we use is a Benq 1000 and overscan depends on the mode. If set to 16:9 or 4:3 the projected image appears to be upscaled pixel for pixel exactly as seen on the computer monitor, so rather more than seen on the tv monitor. In 'Real' mode the image is exactly pixel for pixel showing 720 by 576 in the centre of the 1920 by 1080 resolution of the projector. In 'letterbox' mode, the projector overscans by about 10%.

We would normally manually set the aspect to 16:9 or 4:3 as appropriate and set up the projector to exactly fill the screen in 16:9. Do you think it would be better to overfill the screen onto the black borders to hide any edge artefacts that may be present?

Chris
tom hardwick
Posts: 914
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 9:59 am

Re: 2010 INTERNATIONAL COMPETITION RESULTS

Post by tom hardwick »

There will be edge artefacts if you're projecting VHS tape for instance, but any digital format should be clean right to the edges, and should (in my view) be shown full frame - i.e. underscanned.
PeterVideo
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2009 6:36 pm

Re: 2010 INTERNATIONAL COMPETITION RESULTS

Post by PeterVideo »

At BIAFF I also watched far too many films shown in the wrong aspect ratio - usually because the DVD had been letterboxed and then stretched again by the 16-9 setting on the projector ( incidentally I am sure the IAC logo was also shown wrong more often than right). The other element in this unacceptatable state of affairs was that even when this was blindingly obvious the projectionists seemed to be paralysed into indecision and unwillingness to try and start again.

When this happened last year at a North Thames competition (ruining the crucial punch line on a potential competition winner) I sat down to try and compose a set of fool-proof rules. In the end I gave up because of all the options and combinations which I could envisage. However there are two simple solutions:

- all projectionists check all the films in advance (I can see this might be a problem on BIAFF day one) there is no excuse for day two.
- all entries have a circle as part of the 'leader/countdown' surely everyone can distinguish a circle from an oval. Incidentally what happened to countdown clocks - have they been killed by DVDs?

Peter Kidman
User avatar
Dave Watterson
Posts: 1872
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2007 11:11 pm
Location: Bath, England
Contact:

Re: 2010 INTERNATIONAL COMPETITION RESULTS

Post by Dave Watterson »

I understand that all the BIAFF projection teams were sent the movies a week ahead of the event ...
- Dave

PS I like the Albany Rules ... but would add that whatever entrants say about their format should be taken with a huge pinch of salt and that the projectionists should satisfy themselves about the format they actually see on projection.
tom hardwick
Posts: 914
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 9:59 am

Re: 2010 INTERNATIONAL COMPETITION RESULTS

Post by tom hardwick »

Good point Dave about projectionists ignoring what's printed on the disc and doing a real on-screen check. I say this because although I've been shooting in 16:9 for some years and all my DVDs are 16:9, at least two clubs I've visited have projected my films stretched wider and say, 'Ah, it's a 4:3 DVD'.

Of course SD is 720 x 576 regardless of the aspect ratio, it's only the pixels that change shape to give the different screen ratios. The DVD carries flags to tell the TV what to show, but it seems as if many projectors don't know what to do with this information.

tom.
User avatar
Dave Watterson
Posts: 1872
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2007 11:11 pm
Location: Bath, England
Contact:

Re: 2010 INTERNATIONAL COMPETITION RESULTS

Post by Dave Watterson »

Well, the DVD or tape will carry the signal about which shape of pixel to use IF the user has set her/his tools to interpret the footage that way. You have to check at every stage. On my ancient Adobe Premiere system I tell Premiere to interpret pixels the appropriate way. When it comes to burning a DVD I tell Adobe Encore how to interpret the pixels as soon as the footage is imported.

THEN the worry is whether the projector can recognise it.

Some BIAFF films were shown with a 4:3 picture zoomed in so that the screen was full ... but the edges of the image were trimmed off. Worst example was "Bob's Passion".

-Dave
PeterVideo
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2009 6:36 pm

Aspect ratios and projection

Post by PeterVideo »

Whilst all recent TVs have an autosetting (which is usually the default) which tries to work out the aspect ratio correct setting or uses a flag from the DVD player - I was under the impression that projectors can be set to whatever setting you choose and they will stay there. If this is not true and your projector has an auto setting then you are crazy to use it as it will sometimes get it wrong as my TV sometimes does.

Do you know how the Panasonic used on BIAFF day 2 operated?

Peter Kidman
Post Reply